Dedicated to Truth

Dedication · Senior Member

1 Corinthians 16:1-2

Ruth · Veteran Member

Is that for real?

No telephones -- so the people won't know Paul was town?

They had their methods of communication to get the people together when a famous preacher was in town. Besides Paul didn't stay in town for just one day, he was there for weeks. Lots of time for people to bring their offerings to him.

Dedication · Senior Member

I agree it's rather strange reasoning.

Another thing, the early Christians did not have a church building. There were no special buildings constructed solely for worship for Christians that we know of in the first centuries of Christiandom!

We know from Acts that during Paul's first stay in Corinth they worshipped with the Jews in the synogogue. Of course after the big riot when the Jews beat up the leader of the synogogue who had accepted Christ, the Christians started meeting in homes.

The "church" in Corinth, was NOT a building, it was a group of people. To find them you would have to know where one or more of them lived, they would then send out a messenger (a son, or servant) to call the rest of the members and they would gather in a designated home or place.

To compare this with Malachi, where people brought their tithes to the temple is just not realistic. They had no banks to keep the money. The safest place would be for each member to keep the money in a hidden place in their own homes and then bring it all together for Paul when he came.

The reason they were to "store" it each week, wasn't to save Paul time, but to have a "store" of money to give when Paul did come. He knew people had a hard time coming up with a sizable amount of money in the last minute, he didn't want that, he wanted the people to put aside a small amount each week and have the money ready to give when he arrived.

Dedication · Senior Member

Oh, yes, there is the call to the Greek, the Greek supposedly does not support the "lay the money aside in store in their homes" concept.

Well, let's take a look:

kata -- preposition used in a variety of ways (on, in, every, before, by, after)
Mia   -- one or first
Sabbaton -- (first sabbaton = 1st day, second sabbaton = 2nd day) Jewish reckoning of days
tithēmi -- to place, lay aside, set down,to lay off or aside
hekastos -- every man, every one
hymōn --   of yours
para --  by, beside, near
heautou -- himself, herself, itself, themself
thēsaurizō -- store up, heap up, reserve, lay up treasure, keep in store

So what is the Greek saying?
It's saying exactly what the KJV says.

On or every first day of the week every one is to lay aside a portion of his earnings BY OR NEAR HIM thus storing up, or reserving some monies.

The word tithemi does not carry the implication of giving something, but of setting something aside.

16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

It is to be stored BY HIM or NEAR HIM, which relates to "on his premises".

So everyone is to set aside (and place it where?) near him or by his person.

So yes, the greek supports our understanding.

There is NO hint that they are to take it to some church building every Sunday when they supposedly went to worship.

I did notice that our opponent completely omitted those crucial words:
BY HIM or NEAR HIM from his argument. Some modern translations also lose the true grammatical construction of the original.

Ruth · Veteran Member

Dedication wrote:
He then goes on to say Sabbath keepers add to the text when we say the text means the Corinthians are to do their accounting at the beginning of the week and lay aside a small amount IN THEIR HOMES each week so that there would not be a frantic trying to find money to give to the Jerusalem relief fund, when Paul arrived in Corinth.

I don't argue much with people on forums over doctrine. Things, like the above statement bother me.

Here they say Sabbath keepers "add to the text", then they go and ignore words of the text and themselves add all manner of things to the text in their attempts to save us from God's Sabbath.

Apparently this person you dialogued with added
--a church building in which to store funds
--meetings on Sunday
--a command by Paul to worship together every Sunday

That involves a lot of adding to scripture for the purpose of trying to change God's Holy Day to Sunday.

Dedication · Senior Member

Those arguments can all be traced back to Canright. That's where they get them from.

Ruth · Veteran Member

I'd sure hate to be in Canright's shoes on the great judgment day.

Revelation 11 speaks of the judgment "the dead, that they should be judged" vs. 18 and "the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament" vs 19.

In that ark is God's ten commandment law defining sin.
We are to call sin by its right name. Declare what God has said in regard to lying, Sabbath-breaking, stealing, idolatry, and every other evil. "They which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." [GAL. 5:21.]

When the dead are raised and see Christ seated upon that great white throne and realize that the foundation of His throne rests upon His moral law (as depicted in the ark of the testament) and realize they have used their energies to fight against that law with its signiture ring of the Sabbath, how dreadful it will be for them. How dreadful when all around them they will see people who are lost because of their teaching. "We believed but you told us it was wrong, now we are lost because of you!" Dreadful!

Help us Lord to always gather for you, never to scatter people into disobedience and presumption.

-- Edited by Ruth on Tuesday 29th of March 2011 07:56:41 PM

Dedication · Senior Member

Just some more thoughts on this verse.

Our understanding on this verse is not simply "Adventist indoctrinization" it is accepted by other theologians and Bible commentators who do not simply impose the false sabbath into the verse.

This is not a "worship" command. The Corinthians had heard about the need in Jerusalem and asked for further instructions from Paul as to how to go about establishing a fund for him to take back.

In Lenski's Commentary on Corinthians he states:
"The Christians were to retain their gifts at home until such a time as they should be called for." (p. 758)

Notice too, that Paul uses the Jewish manner of calculating days.
First Sabbaton --
The Jews counted all their days in reference to the Sabbath. This was the first day after the Sabbath.
He does NOT call it the "new sabbath" or the "new weekly day for worship"
He calls it the first day after the Sabbath or "mia Sabbaton".

"Each member is to deposit with HIMSELF each Sunday an amount for his gift and preserve it as a store or treasure. Each member is to keep the growing amount "BY HIM" in his own home, and is not to deposit it with the church at once" (See Lensky page 759. Lensky is NOT a seventh day Sabbath person, he thinks sunday is the day of worship,)

He continues "At this early date the churcheswere not yet organized to the extent of having official treasurers who were duly appointed to take charge of congregational funds" (page 760)

"The plural "collections" refers to the accumulations made by the individauls; each would have his "logia" made. The present tense accords with this: the collections are not to proceed after Paul arrives. Then it will be necessar that each individual simply bring in his accumulation." (Lensky page 760-761)

So we see this is concept is NOT original to Seventh-day Sabbath keepers, but is in accord with respected commentators who are NOT Sabbath observers.

In the culture back then people didn't get pay checks like we do today. Most of them would have to turn produce,animals or goods into cash. Thus they would have to determine what goods to sell for the cause, and what to sell for themselves. So they simply could not wait until the last minute to gather funds.

Here are some more commentators:

John Chrysostom Homily XLIII. He said not, "Let him bring it the church," lest they might feel ashamed because of the smallness of the sum;

but "having by gradual additions swelled his contribution, let him then produce it, when I am come but for the present lay it up," saith he, "at home, and make thine house a church; thy little box a treasury. Become a guardian sacred wealth, a self-ordained steward of the poor.
Thy benevolent mind assigns to thee this priesthood."

> Vincent Word Studies In The New Testament

2. Upon the first day of the week (kata mian sabbatou). Kata has a distributive force, every first day. For week, lit., Sabbath, see on Acts xx. 7.
Lay by him in store (par eautw tiqetw qhsaurizwn). Lit., put by himself treasuring. Put by at home. As God hath prospered (o ti an euodwtai). Lit., whatsoever he may prosper in. See on Rom. i. 10; 3 John 2; and on Acts xi. 29 for the verb eujporew in the similar sense of making a prosperous journey.
No gatherings, etc. Rev., collections. The amount would be greater through systematic weekly saving than through collections made once for all on his arrival.

(Searching Together Magazine, Winter, 1987) In Store

"The expression 'in store' is sometimes used to support the 'storehouse' found in Malachi. The phrase 'in store' actually means to save up in a kind of 'piggy bank.' The Greek words par heauto mean 'by oneself'or 'at home.' The idea behind Paul's remark is that they should accumulate their gifts (which could include money and other goods, like raisins), so that when his company arrived Paul would not have to make any special effort to consummate the collection.

Didache 1:6 For of a truth it has been said on these matters, let thy almsgiving abide in thy hands until thou knowest to whom thou hast given